Curse

Sk8tborderx · Apr 13, 2011, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinyglove

I haven't played 1 serious GvG because there is no non-professional guild that does it.
(played it since factions)

There is usually at least 1 BYOB guild recruiting on QQ forums. If you want to play organized builds you have to be a somewhat serious guild or you will lose, and that isn't fun.

Jacobbs · Apr 13, 2011, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Good message on the op.

Need more bridges to upper-end GvG though. Trying to capture all the nuances of GvG by losing over and over again discourages people.

cataphract · Apr 14, 2011, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

If you want to play organized builds you have to be a somewhat serious guild or you will lose, and that isn't fun.

From my perspective, it's not the losing that's the problem - it's the people. Losing a match simply cannot make me feel as shitty as a retarded leader/officer/dramaqueen/spoiled-brat-that-has-to-have-his-own-way/insert-a-random-know-it-all ever can. And it was those kind of people that ultimately made me decide to quit pvp alltogether. Because at least in pve they can be easily ignored.

floor · Apr 14, 2011, 10:55 AM // 10:55

The whole idea that everyone in pvp is like LOL NOOB and flames new players is false.

In most cases the people with big opinions of themselves are actually the players who suck the most, they cannot see their own flaws and prefer to shout at everyone else in order to shift the blame. These are the players who will never improve because they refuse to believe that they are wrong.

A friend of mine recently came out of pve, and was exactly the same as so many ppl posting here "omg i am so bad people always flame me". I taught him as best i could how to play gvg, in the space of 6 weeks he is now a top 200 monk. But the bit that i think he enjoyed most, was when he played with the same old arrogant players, and he now realises how bad they really are. (he now has 5 champ points in only 3 months of gvg, they have 0 in several years, lol??) If you are willing to learn, and ur determined enough to ride out the initial flame fest, you can rise above all the crap pretty fast. Better players do get frustrated when they lose, thats natural, but they realise losing is part of the game and will rage a lot less.

If you want to play pvp, stick with it, pm ppl u see on obs mode and ask questions, try and learn from ur mistakes and u will soon improve. And remember just because someone shouts the loudest, he is not automatically the best.

added note: Titles are not indicitave of player skill in any way, people can grind titles, or buy accounts, they can generally be ignored. I wont disagree that a lot of people will ask for titles to join groups (mostly in HA), but try forming ur own groups out of ur friends/guildies/members of ur alliance. You would be suprised how often ur low rank random group can roll through so called rank 11+ teams.

2nd added note: A common misconception also is that you need a steady team of 8 players in order to improve and get anywhere in gvg. Wrong. You will actually improve 1000x faster by guesting 4+ good guests to ur team, initially they might carry you to victory, but you soon learn from them, a mixture of them giving helpful advice, and u copying their playstyle. If you try and play with 8 complete beginners, you are far more likely to lose ---> get demoralised and quit because u dont understand WHY you lost. Guild wars is not that hard to learn, but you do need someone to hold ur hand and guide you through ur first few steps.

ogre_jd · Apr 14, 2011, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

The whole idea that everyone in pvp is like LOL NOOB and flames new players is false.

Then I, and many, many others, have had the worst luck imaginable with the draw for opponents whenever we've tried to PvP.

And their skill, or lack thereof, isn't the issue. It is their attitudes. They make PvP a grueling, unpleasant experience.

floor · Apr 14, 2011, 11:34 AM // 11:34

i do hear what ur saying, but being flamed by people outside of ur own team surely wouldnt really bother u too much? after all you can just turn all chat off. People that i have come across generally find ppl screaming on vent (ie-within ur own team) far more of an annoyance.

Also this does slightly link to my last point, if you get some good guests initially, u wont lose. If u dont lose, u dont get flamed. This seems an extremely simplistic way of looking at it, but its often the case.

It should also be pointed out, that generally ppl when they start pvp, believe u need to start in HA, then progress to gvg (which is not true ofc). But the problem is that HA is 100x more ragey than gvg ever is, so a lot of new players only see the negative side of pvp.

The idea that pvp is ragey, and pve is not is also a common misconception. The two are very similar, I am absolutely clueless in pve, i bet if i tried to do UWSC i would get flamed big time ;P PvE just has the facility to let you be a complete loner and play with a whole team of henchmen and heros. This for me takes the fun out of gw, i love being on vent with other ppl, and participating in a team activity, i could never play this game by myself.

cataphract · Apr 14, 2011, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

In most cases the people with big opinions of themselves are actually the players who suck the most, they cannot see their own flaws and prefer to shout at everyone else in order to shift the blame. These are the players who will never improve because they refuse to believe that they are wrong.

It's those people I was talking about. The "lol noob" crowd is benigne and hilarious.

Missing HB · Apr 14, 2011, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

Guild wars is not that hard to learn, but you do need someone to hold ur hand and guide you through ur first few steps.

You also need to be playing at the good hours and have a lot of time to invest on those hours though...Already argued a lot about it not going to again...

floor · Apr 14, 2011, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

You also need to be playing at the good hours and have a lot of time to invest on those hours though...Already argued a lot about it not going to again...

Fairly accurate statement, i dont think anyone would disagree. You pretty much need to be able to play between 7-11pm GMT, at least 4 nights a week.

This is obviously a big commitment. But for those people who are really wanting to learn, this is not a ridiculous amount of time investment. Nothing in life comes easy, and you always have to give up ur time to practise.

As far as being american and unable to play at the above times, its not impossible to get into gvg/pvp, but the american playerbase is about 5% of the size of the european one these days, so its a lot harder to find people and teams to play with and against.

Bassma · Apr 14, 2011, 01:41 PM // 13:41

PVP players leaving MMO's is just part of the MMO worlds. PVP never survives any of them for long. It's always been the PVE players who've really made these games and help them survive. But, it's been the developers who have run the PVE players off by balancing the game for the PVP players who whine and cry and boo hoo all the time about balance and power.

When GW2 comes out this game is going to be a ghost town. I just came back from a month of playing RIFT and it's going to be a ghost town even before that because they have made one of the silliest MMO's of all which is too easy, and too fast to level and nothing to do once you get to lvl 50 anyways. The PVP players are already leaving in droves because of the very first balancing act Trion tried to do and they failed.

Basically though you can't expect any of these MMO's to survive on PVP or GVG as there's just not that much interest in PVP really. Only about 10% of the entire population might show an interest and only 2% are diehard PVPers in any of them. But, that crowd grows bored quickly because they do the same things over n over daily unlike PVE where you have so many different avenues of gameplay and content.

Sorry to hear though your GvG is failing but, then again I knew it would from the getgo way back when GW was new.

I'd also like to say that GvGers brought this upon themselves with their elitist attitudes and telling others they have to play like they say and not allowing for truely OPEN GvG type play. I tried several guilds trying to find one that wasn't elitist but every single one of them said I had to play a certain build and I just won't have any of that and most casual pvp players won't either. That's why the majority of us are playing RA, JQ, and FA. Nobody can tell us how to make our builds or how to play in those or kick us out of the group if we don't.

floor · Apr 14, 2011, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I thought the reason players cannot run any build they feel like was obvious. Most bars that people design for themselves are very individualised and do not particularly benefit the team as a whole. Some weird 1 man ele or assassin spike bar might seem brilliant in theory, but when faced with a full team of opponents, its impossible to just hit a guy on ur own and expect to kill him, therefore ur bar is not helping ur team as much as say a boring old blood necro who dishes out party wide bleeding and degen, and provides an enchantment removal to be used in conjunction with damage from other players on ur team. teamwork is the key.

Im not sure why people would find this a problem, all team activities in real life such as football are the same. Everyone has a position and if you do not fulfill ur role, the entire team falls down because of it

There are BYOB (bring your own build) guilds created to cater for players with the desire to run around by themselves running some new bar they just created. These guilds do not generally see a huge amount of success, but they are certainly very very fun to play with

Essentially in order to succeed in pvp, you need to conform to meta builds (bars become meta because they are the best bars, many ppl dont seem to realise this), and u need a certain amount of competitiveness in ur nature. For very casual players, i can see why they would dislike this as they just prefer to chill out and do their own thing.

If you wanted to run an UWSC clear group in pve, and i turned up on a warrior with frenzy, mending and heal breeze and 5 empty skill slots, you wouldnt let me play, so its only the same really

Sk8tborderx · Apr 14, 2011, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

PVP players leaving MMO's is just part of the MMO worlds. PVP never survives any of them for long. It's always been the PVE players who've really made these games and help them survive. But, it's been the developers who have run the PVE players off by balancing the game for the PVP players who whine and cry and boo hoo all the time about balance and power.

When GW2 comes out this game is going to be a ghost town. I just came back from a month of playing RIFT and it's going to be a ghost town even before that because they have made one of the silliest MMO's of all which is too easy, and too fast to level and nothing to do once you get to lvl 50 anyways. The PVP players are already leaving in droves because of the very first balancing act Trion tried to do and they failed.

Basically though you can't expect any of these MMO's to survive on PVP or GVG as there's just not that much interest in PVP really. Only about 10% of the entire population might show an interest and only 2% are diehard PVPers in any of them. But, that crowd grows bored quickly because they do the same things over n over daily unlike PVE where you have so many different avenues of gameplay and content.

Sorry to hear though your GvG is failing but, then again I knew it would from the getgo way back when GW was new.

I'd also like to say that GvGers brought this upon themselves with their elitist attitudes and telling others they have to play like they say and not allowing for truely OPEN GvG type play. I tried several guilds trying to find one that wasn't elitist but every single one of them said I had to play a certain build and I just won't have any of that and most casual pvp players won't either. That's why the majority of us are playing RA, JQ, and FA. Nobody can tell us how to make our builds or how to play in those or kick us out of the group if we don't.

Did you just get done beating yourself over the head with a hammer before making your post?

Bassma · Apr 14, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Did you just get done beating yourself over the head with a hammer before making your post?

Quote:

I thought the reason players cannot run any build they feel like was obvious. Most bars that people design for themselves are very individualised and do not particularly benefit the team as a whole. Some weird 1 man ele or assassin spike bar might seem brilliant in theory, but when faced with a full team of opponents, its impossible to just hit a guy on ur own and expect to kill him, therefore ur bar is not helping ur team as much as say a boring old blood necro who dishes out party wide bleeding and degen, and provides an enchantment removal to be used in conjunction with damage from other players on ur team. teamwork is the key

We use our own builds in FA, RA and JQ and we are a TEAM in those and we don't have any issues with teamwork. It's just that GvG players got too big for their breeches and now they are suffering because of it. You don't go dictating how someone plays who spend $50+ on the game themselves. You can "ask" them to try another build but you can't force them or they will just leave you as they have done in this game.

Quote:

If you wanted to run an UWSC clear group in pve, and i turned up on a warrior with frenzy, mending and heal breeze and 5 empty skill slots, you wouldnt let me play, so its only the same really

Therein lies YOUR problem and the problem with most GvG players you want to play MECHANICALLY whereas most of us just want to play CASUALLY. It's not about the winning or losing it's being able to play. I don't have to wait 30 minutes or more to play in RA or FA or JQ as we aren't elitists in those arenas. I don't go into missions or areas with the attitude "I must make this the first time through this or everyone in the group is a noob". I have never once asked anyone who joins my group what their build is but I will certainly kick someone who complains about anyones. You get to play for fun and how you want to play in my groups and we don't have those who would grief and destroy the groups either.

Rob Roy The Divine · Apr 14, 2011, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

I'd also like to say that GvGers brought this upon themselves with their elitist attitudes and telling others they have to play like they say and not allowing for truely OPEN GvG type play.

sorry, i've been GvGing since '07 and can honestly say i've never met any elitists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

I tried several guilds trying to find one that wasn't elitist but every single one of them said I had to play a certain build and I just won't have any of that and most casual pvp players won't either.

Also, the whole reason you're being made to play a certain bar is because PvP is organised, you do not just bring a build and go "LOOK AT MA SKILZZZ I MAKE THINGS DIE!" that doesn't work. The whole point of certain builds is that they work in a team sense, and they work with everyone else's bars to help make you kill things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

You also need to be playing at the good hours and have a lot of time to invest on those hours though...Already argued a lot about it not going to again...

definitely not true. I've played till 4/5am gmt and still played games.

worst comes to worse, you can't get a game for 10/15 mins, you goto HA for 20 mins and try again.

Also. despite what you think, pretty much all the top players in the game start out at the bottom too. They all know what it was like, and pretty much all of them will help you out. All it takes is a pm going "hey, do you mind guesting for my guild?" and pretty much 90% of them will say yes if they're not doing anything.

Bassma · Apr 14, 2011, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

sorry, i've been GvGing since '07 and can honestly say i've never met any elitists.

A typical answer of an elitist, denial is the first sign of the problem.

Quote:

Also, the whole reason you're being made to play a certain bar is because PvP is organised

It is? Could have fooled me then saying RA, FA and JQ are "organized" or are you of the elitist type that doesn't consider anything beyond GvG as PVP?

By your very own statements you have proven yourself to be elitist.

Sk8tborderx · Apr 14, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Guilds require specific builds for those arenas? Send me what your smoking.

fowlero · Apr 14, 2011, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

We use our own builds in FA, RA and JQ and we are a TEAM in those and we don't have any issues with teamwork. It's just that GvG players got too big for their breeches and now they are suffering because of it. You don't go dictating how someone plays who spend $50+ on the game themselves. You can "ask" them to try another build but you can't force them or they will just leave you as they have done in this game.

GvG you're facing teams that have been organized with builds of high synergy, often of teams who've played with each other for months even years and know exactly how each member will react in certain situations. Every one of the 64 skills your team has was carefully chosen, and with respect to the other 63 skills your team is carrying. Which cannot be said for RA/JQ/FA.

Noone is saying that FA RA or JQ is not a team, or isn't PvP. You're shoving words into peoples mouths in an attempt make them look like elitists. They simply don't have the same level of organization within them due to the random nature of their respective arena's.

Organization and teambuilds in GvG have got nothing to do with egoism or elitism, it's just how teams are formed to be competitive within the arena. Especially since there's no random aspect.

Then as floor already mentioned, there are BYOB guilds which are always fun for a piss about. Try it.

Sk8tborderx · Apr 14, 2011, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

Noone is saying that FA RA or JQ is not a team, or isn't PvP. You're shoving words into peoples mouths in an attempt make them look like elitists. They simply don't have the same level of organization within them due to the random nature of their respective arena's.

FA and JQ really aren't PvP. It is PvE with a little bit of PvP. The only exception is FA on the Kurzick side.

fowlero · Apr 14, 2011, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

FA and JQ really aren't PvP. It is PvE with a little bit of PvP. The only exception is FA on the Kurzick side.

I'll agree they aren't high end PvP. But denying they're PvP at all is just pointless.

Sk8tborderx · Apr 14, 2011, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I said they had a little bit of PvP thrown in. I would just classify them as PvEvP as most times you accomplish more by ignoring enemy players and focusing on NPC's.